Legislature(1999 - 2000)

03/03/1999 01:10 PM House JUD

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
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HJR 9 - DESTROY BRADY BILL RECORDS                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT announced the first order of business is HJR 9,                                                                   
Urging the President of the United States and the Congress to act                                                               
to ensure that federal agencies do not retain records relating to                                                               
lawful purchase or ownership of firearms gathered through the Brady                                                             
Handgun Bill instant check system.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT called on Representative Eric Croft, sponsor of the                                                               
bill.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 0123                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT stated HJR 9 deals with a conflict between the                                                             
statutes authorizing the instant check system for gun purchases of                                                              
the Brady Handgun Bill and the regulations promulgated pursuant to                                                              
those statutes.  In other words, the regulations implementing the                                                               
instant check system do not fit with the statutes.  The Brady                                                                   
Handgun Bill specifically said that there will not be a federal                                                                 
registry of lawful gun owners.  The language from the Brady Handgun                                                             
Bill reads, "all records shall be destroyed of the system with                                                                  
respect to the call other than the identifying number and date and                                                              
all records system relating to the person or transfer."  In his                                                                 
opinion, that language is clear.  The regulations originally said                                                               
that records could be kept for 18 months then it was reduced to 6                                                               
months, and as Representative Murkowski noted before the meeting                                                                
started a possible further reduction was considered on February 28,                                                             
1999.  He is not aware of the results of that meeting, however.  It                                                             
was not a matter of revisiting whether or not to keep the records                                                               
at all, but just a change in the period of retention.  Although the                                                             
statute passed by Congress, did not say immediately destroy, there                                                              
is a difference between the term "keeping" and the term                                                                         
"destroying".  In this case, the regulations propose keeping not                                                                
destroying.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 0349                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI asked Representative Croft if it is                                                                    
reduced to a 48-hour retention for example, as the result of the                                                                
review, what would that do to the joint resolution.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 0375                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT replied if it is reduced to zero the                                                                       
resolution is not needed.  Forty-eight hours makes it less                                                                      
troublesome, but any keeping of records is troublesome from a legal                                                             
standpoint because the regulations do not comply with the statutes.                                                             
In addition, this is such a hot topic and a well-known concern in                                                               
the gun owner community that a conscious decision should be made up                                                             
front.  Mr. Del Smith from the Department of Public Safety will                                                                 
testify that the state did not need to keep this information for                                                                
audits or any other purposes when it managed the information.  An                                                               
audit can be done with the identifying number and date - what the                                                               
statute allows.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 0504                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT asked Representative Croft whether he is aware of any                                                             
abuses in regards to record keeping.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT replied keeping records is an abuse, but he is                                                             
not aware of them being used for any other purposes.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT opened the meeting up to public testimony.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 0570                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BRIAN JUDY, Alaska State Liaison, National Rifle Association of                                                                 
America (NRA), Institute for Legislative Action, testified via                                                                  
teleconference from California.  He is speaking on behalf of the                                                                
NRA members in Alaska in strong support of HJR 9.  In 1993, the NRA                                                             
worked closely with Congress in drafting the law that created the                                                               
national instant check system - the Brady Handgun Bill.  The main                                                               
inference of the NRA was to ensure privacy for firearm owners, and                                                              
one of the provisions was to destroy the records.  The Brady                                                                    
Handgun Bill says that no governmental agency may require any                                                                   
record to be recorded or transferred at a governmental facility and                                                             
that facility can't use a system to create a registration system or                                                             
transaction, except with respect to those prohibited from receiving                                                             
a firearm.  The Brady Handgun Bill specifically says that all                                                                   
records will be destroyed for law abiding citizens, except for the                                                              
transaction identification number and the date of transaction.                                                                  
History has shown that firearm registration systems have led to                                                                 
firearm confiscation mandates, and NRA members clearly understand                                                               
that the creating of a gun registration system is a major step                                                                  
towards the destruction of the Second Amendment of the U.S.                                                                     
Constitution.  In addition, he agrees with Representative Croft                                                                 
that any retention - 18 months, 6 months, 48 hours - is contrary to                                                             
the law for law abiding citizens.  Furthermore, of the hundreds of                                                              
thousands that the Brady Handgun Bill has stopped from purchasing                                                               
firearms only about seven have been prosecuted.  In conclusion, he                                                              
reiterated the law provides that information be maintained on the                                                               
bad guys and that zero information be maintained on the law abiding                                                             
citizens.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 0814                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT asked Mr. Judy whether he is aware of any abuses of                                                               
information currently being held.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. JUDY replied keeping records is an abuse of the law and                                                                     
contrary to its intent, but he doesn't know whether they have been                                                              
used for any particular person.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 0848                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked Mr. Judy how the Brady Handgun Bill                                                               
squares with local jurisdictions and requirements for handgun                                                                   
registrations.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 0874                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. JUDY replied it is a question that hasn't been resolved.  He                                                                
cited the state of California maintains records of handgun                                                                      
purchasers.  He explained the federal law only restricts the                                                                    
maintenance of records by the federal government.  But, the extent                                                              
that California is acting as an agent of the federal government,                                                                
for example, is a question that hasn't been resolved.  It is                                                                    
feasible that the state may be prohibited from maintaining records                                                              
as well.  A lot of gun owners would like to see that happen.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 1016                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CARL ROSIER, Vice President, Alaska Outdoor Council (AOC); Board                                                                
Member, Territorial Sportsman Incorporated (TSI), testified in                                                                  
Juneau.  For many years these organizations have been strong                                                                    
supporters of shooting sports as well as a citizen's right to                                                                   
purchase, use and keep firearms in a responsible manner.  It is a                                                               
pleasure to see the strong bipartisan support of HJR 9 reflected in                                                             
the sponsorship and cosponsorship.  These organizations believe                                                                 
that the Brady Handgun Bill clearly indicated that once the instant                                                             
check was completed there is no justification or rationale for                                                                  
maintenance of records on a legally qualified buyer.  These                                                                     
organizations believe that it is a subversion of the law with                                                                   
further potential to invade rights of law abiding citizens.  Who                                                                
knows how the information will be used?  Who knows who might have                                                               
access to those records?  What prevents a 6-month retention of                                                                  
records from being extended to 12 months?  What law abiding citizen                                                             
wishes to have a Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) file for a                                                               
day let alone six months for simply purchasing a legal firearm?                                                                 
The Brady Handgun Bill was quite clear in its intent and once again                                                             
federal agencies are attempting to go beyond the congressional                                                                  
authority granted to them.  Those efforts, if not corrected, do                                                                 
nothing but undermine the trust of government by law abiding                                                                    
citizens.  These organizations strongly support HJR 9 and urge the                                                              
legislature to move it through the legislative process                                                                          
expeditiously.  He said, "Let's protect the provision of our Second                                                             
Amendment rights."                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 1161                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DEL SMITH, Deputy Commissioner, Department of Public Safety,                                                                    
testified in Juneau.  From 1994 to November 30, 1998, under the                                                                 
original provisions of the Brady Handgun Bill, the state did not                                                                
retain any records of those legally authorized to purchase a                                                                    
weapon.  The records were immediately destroyed within a couple of                                                              
minutes.  He cited during that time 57,500 checks were done by                                                                  
state and local law enforcement agencies of which 1,532 were                                                                    
denied.  Nationally,  there were 242,000 rejections out of 10.4                                                                 
million requests to purchase a firearm.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 1249                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT asked Mr. Smith to explain the reasons why 1,532                                                                  
would be denied a permit.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. SMITH replied primarily they would be prohibited or denied a                                                                
permit because of crimes committed, mental issues, or domestic                                                                  
violence convictions, for example.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 1307                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked Mr. Smith whether there are any                                                                   
municipal registration requirements for firearms in the state.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. SMITH replied not that he knows of.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked Mr. Smith whether there is a                                                                      
prohibition in statute prohibiting that.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. SMITH replied he can't quote one off the top of his head.                                                                   
According to his understanding, the registration of firearms is                                                                 
neither required nor allowed.  In fact, under the concealed handgun                                                             
program, the state makes sure that no records are kept other than                                                               
what a person qualifies with and that information is not available                                                              
to anybody but the Department of Public Safety.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 1392                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT called for an at-ease at 1:32 p.m. and called the                                                                 
meeting back to order at 1:34 p.m.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 1401                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SCOTT T. CALDER testified via teleconference from Fairbanks.  He                                                                
referred to page 2, line 4, "WHEREAS the actions of the FBI are                                                                 
contrary to both the letter and the spirit of the Brady Handgun                                                                 
Bill and further erode the constitutional right of Alaskans to keep                                                             
and bear arms;".  He stated it is a real important concept and the                                                              
people need to hear about it more from the legislators.  This type                                                              
of concern is the reason for the Second Amendment of the U.S.                                                                   
Constitution.  One of the reasons there are social problems                                                                     
attributed to gun ownership, bad weather, bad parents and                                                                       
everything else is because there is this type of intrusion into our                                                             
daily lives.  He applauded the sponsor of the resolution and                                                                    
encouraged any method to make it stronger or find a way to                                                                      
participate without being threatened.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT noted that any infringement upon a federal                                                                        
constitutional right is alarming.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1543                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked Representative Croft why a copy of                                                                
the resolution is not being directed to the director of the FBI.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT replied he should have thought of that.  He                                                                
has no objection to including it.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1564                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG made a conceptual motion to include the                                                                 
director of the FBI in the "COPIES" section of the resolution.                                                                  
There being no objection, it was so moved.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1600                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JAMES made a motion to move HJR 9, as amended, from the                                                                   
committee with individual recommendations.  There being no                                                                      
objection, CSHJR 9(JUD) was so moved from the House Judiciary                                                                   
Standing Committee.                                                                                                             

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